RV & Camper Buying Tips

Financing your RV Loan
Some people put their house on the market, then buy an R.V. while waiting for the house to sell. Don't even think of selling your house before you've spent some time living in an R.V. Most RVs are financed from 10-15 years. The quicker you pay it off the better, especially if you're retired. Do you really want to spend the next 15 years making payments? Restrictions apply depending on what's installed, but you may be able to write off the interest like a second mortgage, ask your accountant. Qualifying for an RV Loan is harder than a car loan. Most lenders want to see 2 years of tax returns in return for lending you the same amount as a house. Most RV lenders allow you to put down as little as 10%. But we recommend you put down 20%. If you don't have 20% to put down whether its on a car or a recreational vehicle, than you should not be buying. Salespeople will tell you that I'm wrong, that "this is how people have been doing it for years". This is how people have been running into trouble for years too. They just want to sell you an RV or finance your loan, and guess what, people have been doing it wrong for years, just like cars. All those flyers people get in the mail for 0 down on a loan really means upside down on a loan. Any vehicle you buy depreciates 20% the first year. If you don't put down 20%, you'll be upside down on your loan before you know it. If you have to sell your RV a year later, and after they rape you on your selling price, you'll owe more on it than it's worth, and you're in big trouble. I'll bet the salesman did not tell you that. Don't manage your finances the way Americans have been doing it for decades, which is incorrect. You should arrange your own RV financing yourself and get pre-approved. This will help you avoid all the cash flow shell games that some RV dealers can pull on you. Now RV dealers can't quote padded monthly payments that you don't know how to verify. They can't lie to you now, and tell you that you must buy the extended warranty as required by the bank, because you have your own RV loan setup already. The R.V. dealer can't let you drive off then call you a week later to say your financing fell through and your payments went up $100 a month. All these common scams are eliminated. For years car buyers always thought they were supposed to finance at a car dealers, like apple pie and Chevrolet. But now savvy shoppers are finding online banks they qualify for loans at far better interest rates than dealers can offer, and they avoid all the scams.

Negotiating Tips
Whoever is asking the questions is in control of the conversation so you ask all the questions. First of all, tell the salesman you are not buying today no matter what. Even if they ask you "what can we do to make you buy today? Just name your price, Mr. Sucker." Tell them even if it was free you would not take it today because you are going to shop around and no one is going to stop you. They can't argue with that. They have a response to everything you say, so don't say too much. They'll tell you their prices are cheaper, they have the best safety record, your Hundai can haul their 30 foot trailer, they'll tell you anything to get you to sign, and don't let that relaxed atmosphere fool you, it's there to relax you for the kill. Ooops! I meant to say the sell. Watch out for the turnover scam, it's very common with car dealers too. They pass you from one salesman to another or the sales manager and wear you down, weaving their web. Remember you have the upper hand, you can just get up and leave. If they try to delay you, don't turn around, just keep walking. Don't let them separate you and your spouse, and don't give them any valuable documentation that you'll have to try to get back from them to leave. If they say for quality reasons you have to explain to the manager why the salesman was so bad that you did not buy, pick up the pace and haul ass out of there. The longer the keep you there, the longer they weave...

Since you can't determine how much the dealer paid for the RV like you can with cars, take your clue from one of our visitors. He helped his brother make buy a Damon Escaper 3'9 double slider from a Dealer. The MSRP of this vehicle was $176,500, and the sales price was $131,000 FROM THE DEALER NOT a SHOW. You can see that at this level a 35% drop is possible. On coaches selling in the $100,000 range the discount should be 18/25%. On lower priced units, you might try 10%-15%.

Don't ever in a million years let them negotiate by monthly payment. You should always negotiate by the selling price of the vehicle, not by a padded monthly payment, and ask them to outline all the ridiculous fees they expect you to pay like advertising fees, dealer prep, etc. You want to negotiate all those out of the picture before they even have a chance to put it on an invoice. There may be document fees and title fees, but don't pay too much. Don't let them pressure you into an immediate decision. When you buy a house you look at several houses, and you should do the same with an RV. Shop all the RV dealers you can and never buy the first time you go in. For the $30,000 to $100,000 you'll likely pay for an RV, you want a written proposal that you can study at home and compare to other quotes, not some loosely drafted notebook sheet with numbers that will increase dramatically when you actually go in to buy. You have the right to know exactly what you are paying and exactly what the interest is in writing, and you have the right to study it for a few days before you buy it. But some people don't want you to know what you are paying. Any RV dealer who keeps you from that does not get your money. The last thing in the world the salesman wants is for you to go elsewhere for a quote. They are afraid that salespeople are so good that if you leave their lot, another one will get you. Don't be afraid to leave, and get every single verbal promise they make in writing. If they promise you free floor mats, get it in writing. If they refuse to put it in writing, then just leave.

You must negotiate on all the options as well, and use the N.A.D.A. Consumer Recreational Vehicle Appraisal Guide to poke holes in their story when they try to tell you that your RV will hold its value. I would not even start negotiations without that book in my possession. A few dollars now will save you thousands, that book is the best investment in the world for RV buyers. If any salesman ever tells you that an RV is a good investment, run don't walk out of that devilship, and give them a lawn job as you peel out of their lot. Don't ever go back. Every vehicle loses value, usually 20% the first year. You don't buy any vehicle for an investment, you buy it because you like it. When negotiating for your new RV they'll say "This one is the hottest one, it's in demand, everyone is paying full price". If there is even one in stock, then there is no demand. Make sure you have a folder with addresses and phone numbers of all the dealers in your area so they can see you did your homework. If you leave without buying, they'll tell you that you won't find it cheaper anywhere else. Every single time any salesperson has said that to me I proved them wrong.

If you're trying to negotiate buying a used RV, here's a great tip. Be sure you have the N.A.D.A. Consumer Recreational Vehicle Appraisal Guide to lookup the market value of the RV you are considering. Be sure to deduct for excess mileage and condition, as specified by the guide. Once you have figured out the market value of the RV, tell the dealer you know they paid thousands less for it from the poor sucker who traded it in. How many times have you traded in a car and got $2000-$4000 less than market value? You lose even more with RVs, so you should be able to pay even less than market value. Also ask the dealer for the maintenance records of the RV, you want to be sure the previous owner took good care of it. Be sure to run an AutoCheck Vehicle History Report your most powerful tool. It will save you thousands of dollars in losses and safety issues, and lots of emotional misery. Enter the VIN# of the vehicle and they search over 550 million vehicle records for rolled back odometers, junked cars, and accidents.

There's a lot more options on RVs than on cars
You can add roof A/C's, but these expensive extras can only run on main current. They HAVE to be plugged into a power outlet or generator because they are too powerful for ordinary battery power. Other extras are generators, Microwave ovens, refrigerator, water heater, TV satellite dish, levelers for keeping your RV level when parked, Slide outs to give extra room. TV remote cameras mounted on the rear of your RV which sends the 'image' to a small TV monitor on the dashboard. There's also televisions, one in the main area and one in the bedroom, upgraded couches and chairs. Don't think for a minute that your getting good chairs without upgrading. You'll need a captain seat upfront, and eating area furniture. Twin beds, and queen beds. With all these options, and without your ability to verify dealer pricing, Winnebago, Beaver, Cross Country or any of the RV manufacturers can charge what they like. So come on over folks, drive your Fleetwood RV over to Crazy Jeff's RV supply. We have a ton of RV accessories just waiting to suck money out of your account.

Tips For Buying Or Selling A Used RV & Avoiding Scams
The two best things that will protect you are knowing how much a used RV is worth, and knowing if there are any problems with the vehicle. You must invest wisely and have an experienced RV mechanic inspect a used RV or you could be buying a money trap that you'll lose even more thousands on trying to dump it later on. Use RV classifieds or the RV Trader to see what other RV owners are asking when selling their motor homes, campers, and trailers, etc.

Recreation Vehicle Blue Book Values
Getting data on recreation vehicles is much harder than cars. You can't just go to Kelley Blue Book Or Edmunds and look up used RV prices. You have to buy the N.A.D.A. Consumer Recreational Vehicle Appraisal Guide mentioned above or Kelley Blue Book publishes books with Recreation Vehicle values, Motor Homes and Travel Trailers. Unfortunately the data is not online. All of these publications are offered by annual subscription only.

Watch out for the rebate scam!
How the scam works: Salesperson says you get a $15,000.00 rebate from the manufacturer. The rebate form says to allow 4-6 weeks for processing. On the 8th week you phone the dealership for a status report. The dealer gives you the run-around, until at last they they inform you that because "they did not make out on the original deal, they had ask the manufacturer to return the rebate to them to apply to the deal." Of course they did not apply the rebate to the deal, they kept the money for themselves. If this happens to you, make sure you give a ringy dingy to the kind folks over at your state's Department Of Revenue to start an investigation as to whether the dealer paid the sales tax on that rebate or not.
How to avoid the scam: You may have been better off just having the dealer deduct the rebate amount from your purchase price, then there is no waiting or sweating it out.

Don't give them your Drivers License or Social Security number!
You'll need it to break off negotiations and leave. Many dealers photocopy your license before a test drive. Tell them there is no reason for them to. They'll say insurance regulations require it. The attorney general says NEVER let anyone copy your license. Car rental agencies don't copy your license and you're taking their car for a week! Some dealers copy your license "in case you rob the salesman and take off with the RV". If you put up enough resistance, they'll let it slide. If not, I have the perfect solution:

How to prevent them from taking your license
Make legible copies of your license and when they ask for it, hand them the copy, get it back when you leave. Write on the copy that the dealer may NOT run a credit check. Remind them the FTC fines $2500 for unauthorized credit checks. There is no reason for them to know anything about you at all until you have agreed on a price and decided to buy from them. Many dealers are honest photocopy your license on a copier at the front desk and give it right back. But some, while you're out on the test drive, run a credit check on you. Then they give your info to local banks, who run credit checks. Now you have 5-6 credit checks on your record. This will bite you in the ass later when you buy furniture and apply for credit. You'll get rejected for 5-6 checks on your credit with no credit issued. Bottom line: Don't give up ANY personal info until you have a signed the buyer's order and are ready to pursue financing. Show them you have a valid license, and insurance, and that is sufficient. Don't give ANY reason to prevent you from leaving. You'll have to fight to get your license back:

This is a common scam that happens at many car dealers also. There's a lot of money at stake, and they'll do anything they can in the form of legal kidnapping to keep you there where they can slowly work on you in a calm, relaxed, Polo shirt atmosphere as they fill your head with all the wonderful images of the open road and fishing by the lake. The more time you spend in their office, the bigger web they can weave around you, passing you between different salespeople, using decades of tried and true selling tricks that work on anyone. You'll have a hard time justifying why you should not buy an RV.

Ownership Costs
A decent overnight parking spot with electric and sewer hookups can $20 to $30 a night IF you can find one. In nice areas like Yosemite or Pacific Coast Highway, is almost impossible during the summer season.

Tips On Making RV Life Better
You can join RV parks such as Trail Ways for several thousand dollars, and you can reserve a space in their parks so you won't get stuck without a place to stop-over. Some are quite up scale with full facilities. Check out GOOD SAM, an organization similar to the AAA, but for RVers. They can give information on buying R.V.s.

RV Salesman Tricks Revealed: A story from the trenches
From the back office, our contact in the RV industry tells us a few stories from his RV dealership below that are very common in the RV industry. They had 2 sets of books. Salespeople were told to get the prospective buyer off the lot and into the sales manager's office using whatever 'phrase' would work. A buyer is looking at a $60,000 recreational vehicle. There's no way he'll pay $60,000. The salesman says "What would you say if I could get it for you for $40,000? I know we're trying to clear some inventory and I heard the sales manager say he's willing to discount models to make room for new ones. What have you got to lose? You only want to spend $40,000 - if he doesn't come down to your price, you walk!" The sales manager leads the salesman in with a pre-arranged skit. "So Tom - what can we help these folks with?", he asks. "Well Mr. Manager, the customer only wants to spend $40,000. He wants the Winnebago but not for $60,000. I heard you say the other day that you'd like to move some of the models." An amused chuckle gurgles up from the sales manager's throat. "Oh, dear. You know Tom, in a few years you're going to make a good salesman but you should know better by now. You know we can't discount a vehicle like that by one third. We'd be out of business in a month!" (This 'routine' of course, has been previously worked out) "You know," grins the sales manager toward the customer, "We only keep Tom around because he's nice guy." The buyer nods, feeling a little sorry for the salesman who is looking sheepish. "Well, I figured a discount of $20,000 would be too much," says the prospective buyer. The sales manager says, "To tell you the truth Jim, (he's learned the buyer's first name by now) I'm not sure how much we've got in that RV."

"So, let me look it up for you." He reaches behind him for the sales ledger and quickly locates the Winnebago page. "Uhuh, here it is. Let me see. We bought this in on a trade for $48,000 - oh, yeah. Now I remember this one. We took it in on a trade for a new Beaver and discounted the Beaver, hoping to make it up on the Winnebago." He shakes his head and continues, "Man plans and God laughs, right? Well, we can't win 'em all!" Leaning across the table and smiling like the wonderful, honest, genuine fellow he is, he offers the buyer a privileged look at the "company books". "Obviously, we don't let everyone look at our books but you can see for yourself in black and white." The buyer studies the ledger. Everything Mr. Manager said is true. The salespeople are told in sales meetings to keep quiet after being verbally 'chastised' and let the sales manager weave his web.

As the buyer studies the figures, Mr. Manager says "However, Tom was right about one thing. I sure would like to move some inventory to make room for other models." He rechecks the ledger and tries to find a way of helping these good folks, "You're looking to pay $40,000 - I've bought this in at $48,000. Look, I'm going out on a limb here but if I can swing this with my boss for $50,000 - how does that sound? It's a little more than you wanted to pay but it'll help me out and save you a chunk of money. After all, what would you rather have? Something you love for a little extra or something you might be unhappy with? Y'know, that's a LOT of coach for $50,000." Mr. Manager goes to see the boss. A few minutes later he returns with him. Smiling, the boss says to the buyer, "I don't know what you said to Mr. Manager, but you owe him a nice dinner!" Now having committed the buyer to the sale (how can he say 'no deal' now that Mr. Manager has gone to bat for him?) the boss makes a quick exit, saying to the salesman "Tom, I want to talk to you before you put me into bankruptcy." He takes Tom's arm and drags him outside. Of course, once outside Tom gets the fist in the air "Boy did we shaft them!" salute.

Summary Of This story: "There were TWO sets of books. The real book showed that the dealer bought the Winnebago for $25,000. This sale netted us $23,000. My commission was $1,000. $22,000 for the dealer."

Common Sales Pitches To Look Out For

• "What's it going to take for me to get you into this vehicle today?"
• "Can I ask you folks something? My boss will want to know. I know you're not buying so where did I go wrong? I gave you a great deal and it's the vehicle you want so I must have done something wrong."
• Sales people always answer a negative with a positive. They NEVER answer a negative with a negative. Customer: It's only a four cylinder. Salesman: Think of the gas savings!
  

Rude things an RV customer should not do

• Don't lie about the condition of your trade in. You wouldn't like it if it happened to you
• Don't lie about what other dealers offered you for your trade in
• Don't apply for financing a major purchase like an RV after filing bankruptcy
• Don't waste the salesperson's day looking at units if you have a recent bankruptcy
• Make real sure you're ready to buy when you put down a deposit. Thoroughly research your deal before you buy, not after you buy
• NEVER give a deposit no matter how much they pressure you until you are 100% sure you want that rig
• Don't put down a deposit and try to take it back later